Curse

Grey Hawthorne · Aug 14, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

I started playing GW in '07, had a seizure and couldn't play games until a while ago. Previously I had been a warrior on WoW and been the main tank in many high end raids.

so now I'm going to ask a completely newbie question. How the hell do you hold aggro in this game as a warrior? I'm confused.

zelgadissan · Aug 14, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Earth Shaker.

For some more elaboration - don't tank, tanking sucks. Kill.

Xenomortis · Aug 14, 2009, 07:48 PM // 19:48

For general PvE, tanking is inefficieint and a recipe for disaster.
Part of the reason is that a warrior's real goal is to kill stuff and kill stuff quickly.
Another reason is that the AI in GW has target selection priorities that basically exclude tanking classes.

The AI will prefer to attack a character with lower armour, less health, wielding caster weapons or casting enchantments or spells on other allies. Warriors have the highest armour in the game and should be aiming for a decent amount of health.
Don't take this to think the warrior will take any less hate than the rest, because they will recieve a beating being on the frontline, but they're built for that.

There is a PvE only skill in Factions, "Save Yourselves!", that grants +100 armour to all other party members. This is basically a "get aggro" button as you will suddenly have much less armour than everyone else.

dilan155 · Aug 14, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

the best defense is an offense, keep that in mind and dont tank instead hold aggro and do damage, earth shaker is a good skill, if your going W/E you can use some earth ele snares like grasping earth, though i dunno if it'll be worth the points in earth mastery. and like xeno said save yourselves is a great skill, specially as a warrior since you shouldn't have too much trouble with adrenalin.

Grey Hawthorne · Aug 14, 2009, 08:33 PM // 20:33

so to sum up. 1)don't tank cuz it blows. 2)Kill everything in sight. 3) work with save yourselves. that right?

Faure · Aug 14, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

2 imo should be: kill everything that is obstructing your path. Otherwise you end up killing a lot of useless foes. And might end up aggro'ing multiple groups.

I think IF there's some crowd control applicable in GW it's luring with a bow, to split possible groups from others.

Grey Hawthorne · Aug 14, 2009, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faure

2 imo should be: kill everything that is obstructing your path. Otherwise you end up killing a lot of useless foes. And might end up aggro'ing multiple groups.

I think IF there's some crowd control applicable in GW it's luring with a bow, to split possible groups from others.

so warriors do the majority of pulling then? I'm ok at pulling smaller groups out of a bigger group and watching for pats (lots and lots of soloing).

Vesta · Aug 14, 2009, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I myself find it way more effective to use a minionmaster for tanking than a warrior with high armor. Minions are easy to refresh and will keep the enemy from your casters.

Since you play warrior, just join your minion army and slash the enemy with your sword or axe :-) Snare enemies that bypass the minionwall and going for the squishy backline will do.

Qing Guang · Aug 14, 2009, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Haha, I had the complete opposite problem starting WoW... "Wait, tanking is just standing there taking hits? Lame!"

Anyway, yeah, we don't do the stand-in-place-and-get-beat-on-while-the-midline-blows-them-away thing (we as in Guild Wars, not as in Warriors as I don't have one, unless you want to count my Elementalist who usually runs point blank spells and a dagger or hammer). You get to charge up and kill things, and unlike Assassins (or at least the majority of the sin population - I've met a few who know how to stay alive), not die in the process. As people have said, "Save Yourselves!" is a way to get aggro, but that's pretty much it. On some occasions (namely certain Factions missions in Kaineng City), you can body-block mobs, but mainly you should be more interested in getting up there and slicing the casters to ribbons, or maybe attacking the mobs that are trying to do the same to your own midline.

We're not big on aggro control in general, except for of course the art of pulling. We're more crowd-controlly - I mean, that's pretty much the whole purpose of the Mesmer class, as well as a good part of the Curses attribute line.

Aeon221 · Aug 14, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

The simplest way to think about it: don't let them beat on you when you could be beating them off. Since warriors are exactly as good at tanking as anyone else with prot spirit on them, there just isn't any reason to turn them into a worthless sitting machine.

Heck, pulling is generally a waste of time, even in hard mode. Just pile right in there, and let the monks sort em out.

That's how I like to vanquish, anyway.

Grey Hawthorne · Aug 14, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

:P so now that we've established that this aggro system is compleeeeeeeeeeetely different from other mmo's. what is the aggro system like on GW. I hear a lot of aggro control coming from SY and then I hear that you just break ranks and rip out a man's eyes and make him dance like a marionette with his own optical nerves.

how do you maintain aggro whilst maiming said target?

Bob Slydell · Aug 14, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Hawthorne

I started playing GW in '07, had a seizure and couldn't play games until a while ago. Previously I had been a warrior on WoW and been the main tank in many high end raids.

so now I'm going to ask a completely newbie question. How the hell do you hold aggro in this game as a warrior? I'm confused.

Yeah I've been playing GW since early 2006 and I am still boggled as to how people consider warriors to be tanks in a game with no hate/aggro management.

_Nihilist_ · Aug 14, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Hawthorne

:P so now that we've established that this aggro system is compleeeeeeeeeeetely different from other mmo's. what is the aggro system like on GW. I hear a lot of aggro control coming from SY and then I hear that you just break ranks and rip out a man's eyes and make him dance like a marionette with his own optical nerves.

how do you maintain aggro whilst maiming said target?

Knock them down (Earth Shaker, Brawling Headbutt), get in their way (bodyblocking WORKS in GW - you/enemies can't just run through other players/npcs/mobs), use a Snare (Grasping Earth works wonders if you have an Ele secondary), use "Save Yourselves!" (gives all allies within earshot +100AL/armor, which makes mobs see you as the squishy and they respond accordingly - by trying to eat your face).

If you kill things fast enough, you don't have much time to worry yourself with "holding/grabbing aggro", you barely have enough time to choose your next target!

cognophile · Aug 14, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

There are tanking strategies in GW which involve a single player, typically buffed with enchantments, bonds, etc. running out and taking aggro, then snaring the mobs using something like grasping earth or ward against foes and having the rest of the party come in and nuke. If you have a wall or corner to work with, body blocking is another option.

However, as others have mentioned, most situations don't warrant the full "tank and spank" treatment.

MisterB · Aug 14, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

Yeah I've been playing GW since early 2006 and I am still boggled as to how people consider warriors to be tanks in a game with no hate/aggro management.

There was a way to force everything to attack one player, but ANet removed it before Factions released, or very soon after. Players carrying an item were instantly selected as a target by AI; people used this "trick" in Sorrow's Furnace with the gears and in FoW with the tome.

So the only time GW has had any form of easily accessible forced aggro was by exploiting the AI's behavior, and that behavior is gone.

There are still some ways to exploit the AI aggro, but they require more coordination and tactics to fulfill all of the conditions. And it takes longer to do that most of the time than just killing them outright.

Grey Hawthorne · Aug 14, 2009, 09:45 PM // 21:45

snares and kd's gotcha. and no more tank n' spank.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Aug 14, 2009, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

The simplest way to think about it: don't let them beat on you when you could be beating them off.

I lol'ed

But yeah do not tank just kill, this does not mean you should not try to get as many enemys to attack your heavily armored ass though, you still need to run in first and gather agro best you can, just dont make a build built around making you stay alive, thats the monks job

subarucar · Aug 15, 2009, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Im reading this thread, you sound like you still want to hold agro etc. You dont need to bother, if you have a good prot monk you can pretty much turn whatever party member is being attacked into a tank. If you have a bad prot monk aka Heroes, you should have an MM hero, where minions make a nice wall for you.

The main purpose of Save Yourselves is not to hold agro, it is to make the rest of your party say "lol" as enemy monsters hit them for very little damage.

KD's main purpose is not to hold agro, but to stop said foe from attacking your party, or healing their mob for a few seconds, the latter usually results in a kill.

In GW, the only agro control you need to bother with is pulling, try not to fight more than 1-2 groups at a time, grab a long and ping it off at the mob you want to fight, run back towards your team, then kill them. Anyone can pull, does not have to be a warrior.

Gift3d · Aug 15, 2009, 12:47 AM // 00:47

hahahahahahaha.

Guild Wars isn't as ridiculously easy as 'run up hold aggro nuke', this is the beauty that drives most talentless wow players away, it's one of the many attributes of what i like to call Guild Wars' built-in natural selection drive.

As a warrior, you can either stop the enemies from getting to your midline/backline for a few seconds, or just make them get there 50% slower. That's all, though.

**Marty Silverblade** · Aug 15, 2009, 01:20 AM // 01:20

It's important to distinguish the difference between holding aggro and tanking.

*Tanking is where you stand around and be useless while stuff hits you. Holding Aggro is where you make a bit of an effort to pull and attract attention.
*Tanks fill their bar with block stances and +health skills. Non-tank Wars run damage bars, as normal.
*Tanks help prevent damage. Non-tank Wars help prevent a ton of damage ("Save Yourselves", Earth Shaker, KD's), while dealing a ton themselves.

There really isn't a reason you should be tanking. Any half decent Monk will put [[Shield of Absorption] and [[Protective Spirit] on you, essentially making you unkillable by either spike or pressure (i.e, practically unkillable), and as such there is no need to waste skills or attributes on tanking crap.